Author Topic: novice with delusions of grandure  (Read 4189 times)

Richardgarner1

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Re: novice with delusions of grandure
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2014, 07:22:58 PM »
Thats a really good price thanks for that think I might have to treat myself to one lol can some one here tell my wife Xmas is canceled,


Richardgarner1

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Re: novice with delusions of grandure
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2014, 07:34:42 PM »
I appreciate the advice pilau as I'm a complete noob, all is welcome, but for £500 quid my options were limited and I spent sooooo much time looking my eyes were starting to bleed, wish I'd asked here first, but hey it's a stop gap to something better and its under warrenty so I'll just HAVE to upgrate before it runs out ,well that's what the missus will hear

Pilau

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Re: novice with delusions of grandure
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2014, 12:15:19 AM »

Now for some buying advice: Once you've been to Tredz to try on gear and decided what you want to buy, walk out the door, drive home & fire up the laptop. I've given up with that place charging the earth for stuff and not even trying to be competitive with all the other main players and I have given them countless chances to take my money from me but I ain't a lottery winner and I ain't rockerfella but I am savvy and I don't like getting my pants pulled down.... (contrary to the rumours)  :o :D


I don't fully agree with that. I'm gonna get all moral and bleeding heart now. But if everyone rocks up in Tredz, tries on their kit and goes and buys it elsewhere from an online company that doesn't have the overheads of a showroom and shop assistants, then pretty soon they'll go under and you lose your local bike shop. Not to mention some of the guys (our friends) on here work for Tredz and they all lose their jobs!  :(  I kind of think, if I want to go into the shop and try on their kit or get their advice and like something, I'm going to buy it there and pay for the privilege. Plus if I get it home and then find it doesn't suit (Like "Woah! That Lycra's actually WAY too tight!"), I don't have to go through the pain of posting it back to someone. As for not being competitive, they've improved a lot. I get an automatic 10% discount and if you ask them they'll match their own internet prices. That starts to put them pretty close to the right ball park. You do kind of have to build something of a rapport with the guys on the shop floor.

Don't get me wrong, I don't buy everything from the local bike shops. If I know what I want and I've done my research & shopping around online, I'll buy online. Basically it tends to boil down to me using Tredz (and the others) for emergency supplies, clothing and when I really don't know what I want and need advice. I've bought all my bikes in the local bike shops and I don't reckon I'm worse off than if I'd done that online.

And here endeth the sermon of the bankrupt man!  ;)

domparkes

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Re: novice with delusions of grandure
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2014, 09:57:04 AM »
Yep what Andy said (most of it anyway).

And further to that - comparing prices from a single bike shop with the whole of the internet (ie the best price found through Google) is never going to work out well overall for the bike shop, whoever they are. There will almost always be someone out there selling whatever it is you're after a bit cheaper.

Andy's point about Tredz' online prices is also a good one - seems they acknowledge the need to price competitively online so their web prices are often up (down?) with the best of them. And whether it's their official policy or not I don't know, but it does seem that if you ask them to they'll match their own web prices in-store.

I'm a bit of a hypocrite though - I buy most of my stuff online but I would be very sad if all the local bike shops disappeared.
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Richardgarner1

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Re: novice with delusions of grandure
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2014, 11:00:27 AM »
I bought my bike from tredz they were very helpful even after i bought a cannondale and realise it it was a waste of money,it cost 350 and when I looked into it, of course after buying it i realised it was no good, they were happy to return it, all be it I then spent more money there lol

Steve ;)

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Re: novice with delusions of grandure
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2014, 11:29:27 AM »
Hi Rich
Even though buying a brand new shiny bike is tempting, there's always great bargains to get second hand ( especially 26"ers at the moment ! )

Ebay
Pinkbike
Local shops ( bikehub )

Worth looking at for sure

Steve
Planning on living forever .... So far so good !!

Richardgarner1

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Re: novice with delusions of grandure
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2014, 01:32:44 PM »
I did consider buying second hand, but didn't really know what to look out for, at least if there's a problem now I got some comeback, last thing I wanted to do was buy a pig and need to spend money on it. But something to keep in mind for later definitely

domparkes

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Re: novice with delusions of grandure
« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2014, 02:15:27 PM »
Cube are specced well and look good but I deal with far too many in warranty to make them worth the money for me.

I've heard you say this before, but it puzzles me. Unless the majority of the warranty claims you deal with are frame breakages, what is actually happening here? Because in the main, bike builders basically just design and build (or have built) a frame and then bolt components specced and sourced from third parties onto it before selling it as a complete bike.

So assuming it's not all frame breakages, what is going on? Is it the case that:

 - Cube specs poor quality components which fail prematurely? (seems not from your comment)
 - Cube designs/builds their frames badly, in such a way that they place undue stress on components? (eg poor alignment leading to premature frame bearing failure, undue stress placed on shock as a result of bad design etc)
 - Cube (or their agents) don't build their bikes up very well and bits drop off them and/or break because they're not properly fitted in the first place?
 - Buyers of Cube bikes typically have unreasonably high expectations of their bike's durability?
 - Buyers of Cube bikes are typically gnarr shredders who just destroy their bikes by being toooo rad?
 - other?

I'm genuinely intrigued...
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Pace Ian

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Re: novice with delusions of grandure
« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2014, 07:59:22 PM »
I understand where you're both (Andy/Dom) coming from regards supporting the LBS but every time I've been in there in the last twelve months they just cannot get close enough for me to online prices from other sellers. And when I say close, I'm not expecting them to match a price (although thats what they've claimed they can do in the past and didn't!) but just to get to a reasonable price difference of say a fiver as per example below.

Their most recent sales fail was when I wanted to buy a set of Saint pedals. They are listed as £49.98 on the website and in store I get another 10% off which would be £44.98. Online you can get them for £34.99 including free delivery within 48hrs, thats a difference of a tenner which I wasn't happy to pay. If they had come down to £40 while I was in store asking what they could do then I would've handed over £40 and walked out the door with them, but they didn't, just glad I didn't go there specifically or it would have been another wasted trip.

Perhaps I should just say to whichever assistant is serving me: 'so&so has them for this price, you have them for this price, I'll give you this much'.
But instead I ask politely what their best price is after the 10% discount and just accept that and then usually walk away as I'm not happy with the response.
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Pilau

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Re: novice with delusions of grandure
« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2014, 12:51:08 AM »
I understand where you're both (Andy/Dom) coming from regards supporting the LBS but every time I've been in there in the last twelve months they just cannot get close enough for me to online prices from other sellers. And when I say close, I'm not expecting them to match a price (although thats what they've claimed they can do in the past and didn't!) but just to get to a reasonable price difference of say a fiver as per example below.

Their most recent sales fail was when I wanted to buy a set of Saint pedals. They are listed as £49.98 on the website and in store I get another 10% off which would be £44.98. Online you can get them for £34.99 including free delivery within 48hrs, thats a difference of a tenner which I wasn't happy to pay. If they had come down to £40 while I was in store asking what they could do then I would've handed over £40 and walked out the door with them, but they didn't, just glad I didn't go there specifically or it would have been another wasted trip.

Perhaps I should just say to whichever assistant is serving me: 'so&so has them for this price, you have them for this price, I'll give you this much'.
But instead I ask politely what their best price is after the 10% discount and just accept that and then usually walk away as I'm not happy with the response.
Yeah for sure there will be times when they just cannot compete. As I said, if I know what I want and know Tredz or the others are not competitive, I  go straight to the online purchase.

Giving them your price and offering them the chance to compete is a great idea. Especially if you walk into the shop having already identified what you want, if they take your challenge and only make £1 profit, it's got to be better than letting you go to a competitor. (By profit, I mean including overheads)

Pilau

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Re: novice with delusions of grandure
« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2014, 12:56:52 AM »
I bought my bike from tredz they were very helpful even after i bought a cannondale and realise it it was a waste of money,it cost 350 and when I looked into it, of course after buying it i realised it was no good, they were happy to return it, all be it I then spent more money there lol

Rich, I wasn't serious, Canondales are great bikes. Just don't tel Jon I said so!!  ;) Actually, all brands have their lame duck models. Some more than others, pretty much like every aspect of retailing. Not sure which C'dale you bought and why it was no good.

PS A Canondale road bike is on my n+1 shortlist.  ;)

Richardgarner1

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Re: novice with delusions of grandure
« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2014, 03:55:19 AM »
Ha ha lol it was a trial 7 nice frame but forks brakes etc weren't great but what do u expect for 350, i couldnt find a  review on it before I bought it, but when I started searching the individual components forks etc realised it was cheap for a reason shame cos I liked the look of the bike so i decided to spend a bit more cash to upgrade the spec a little, that did confuse me a little the comment  on cannondales lol irony isn't so easy to see written in txt lol as u can tell my bike knowledge is limited 

Jon

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Re: novice with delusions of grandure
« Reply #27 on: October 18, 2014, 08:19:53 PM »
I agree with most of what Andy (Pilau) said but this bugs me: and if you ask them they'll match their own internet prices. . This often feels like I'm being ripped off a little. "I paid £45 for object X but the same place sells it for £35 postage free. I made the effort of going to the shop but they still won't offer the cheaper price with being asked?" I shouldn't need to stand in the shop googling Tredz' prices. I was desperate for brake pads last year and was just about to walk out after seeing the price (£16 Tredz v £6-8 online. I'll go without a ride for two days for that price difference!) I happened to mention it to one of the sales guys I know and he matched the online price for me. That's ridiculous, they almost lost a sale and only saved it because I'm friendly with the guys!

As for Cannondales, Andy is right, I do like them. I've owned 5, 2 x road, 2 x mtb, 1 cx. (I have owned other brands as well and some are very good!  ;) ) Some have been great bikes, two were mediocre. The current mtb range is imo fairly humdrum but the road and cx bikes are getting great reviews. There are plenty of iconic bike brands around but C'dale made fantastic bikes like the Killer V, Super V, Raven, Beast of the East, Prophet, etc and are genuinely innovative - see the Lefty fork, oversized BBs, headshok. Sometimes this stuff may not work but it will be a sad day when they stop innovating.

And talking about iconic bike brands, Fat Chance are making a comeback. I loved these bikes and just hope I can afford one. (And they build a nice steel HT, about 130mm, with a gorgeous paintjob.  ;D )

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Pace Ian

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Re: novice with delusions of grandure
« Reply #28 on: October 18, 2014, 09:51:03 PM »
+1 about Fat Chance, the Yo-Eddy in Candy Cherry is/was a beautiful bike. I have one slight problem though, and it's the same problem I've got with the new Orange Clockwork with Alu tubes and wagon wheels, I mean come on, a Clockwork is supposed to be a 26" wheeled Reynolds steel frame...

if it ain't broke, don't fix it! ;)
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domparkes

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Re: novice with delusions of grandure
« Reply #29 on: October 20, 2014, 11:13:54 AM »
I agree with most of what Andy (Pilau) said but this bugs me: and if you ask them they'll match their own internet prices. . This often feels like I'm being ripped off a little. "I paid £45 for object X but the same place sells it for £35 postage free. I made the effort of going to the shop but they still won't offer the cheaper price with being asked?" I shouldn't need to stand in the shop googling Tredz' prices. I was desperate for brake pads last year and was just about to walk out after seeing the price (£16 Tredz v £6-8 online. I'll go without a ride for two days for that price difference!) I happened to mention it to one of the sales guys I know and he matched the online price for me. That's ridiculous, they almost lost a sale and only saved it because I'm friendly with the guys!

There is an old adage that goes something along the lines of 'what's the surest way to end up with a million pounds in the cycling industry? Start with two million.'

While this clearly isn't the case for all cycle shop proprietors (I'm guessing the family that owns CRC doesn't have to scrimp and save too much, while we can all think of bike shop owners closer to home who seem to do very nicely thankyou), the issue at stake here is the vast difference between a traditional shop-based retail model and e-commerce in all its forms.

Taking e-commerce to start with, this distribution channel ranges from the likes of Amazon at the top, with its multi-billion streamlined logistics and distribution operation, to the industrious home-based 'dabbler' who buys a few odds and ends from wholesalers (or perhaps even direct from China) and then sells them on eBay, perhaps combining this with a full-time job to make ends meet. Maybe s/he only regards the proceeds from selling stuff on eBay as beer money, and so only needs to make a couple of quid on each item. S/he has very few overheads, and has taken very little financial risk - if sales dry up for some reason their financial commitment is limited to the value of any unsold stock, which they can probably in any case dump at cost or just below to minimise their losses. If they have a month when they're too hard up to buy in more stock then they can simply put things on hold until they've got a bit of spare cash to get going again. Perhaps they don't even bother mentioning their extra income to HMRC and so they don't pay any tax on it.

Of course, searching eBay and/or Google Shopping for an item which is stocked by at least one of these dabblers will turn up a positive result at a very nice price - ergo 'it's available online for just £whatever'. Great for consumers, and I won't pretend that I don't regularly buy stuff at unbeatable online prices. I'm not a charity.

Contrast this with even the most basic of bike shops. The proprietor has taken a substantial financial commitment to acquire the lease, for which they will probably remain responsible even if their business subsequently fails. There will be initial shopfitting costs, equipment like ePos systems and maybe workshop equipment to purchase, and then ongoing costs associated with maintaining the premises. They will have to pay rent each month, maybe also rates (if they don't qualify for 100% relief), heat, light etc etc. They may or may not employ someone, but even if they don't they are making a commitment to spend pretty much all of each working day in the shop, meaning they have little or no time to earn a second income elsewhere. People who go into a shop expect to see a reasonable depth and breadth of stock at all times (or they'll just walk out again), so the proprietor has to commit money up-front to stocking the shop and then keeping it well stocked thereafter. This can mean thousands of pounds - if they have the money then they forfeit interest earned on it, if they don't (as is more likely) then they incur the ongoing cost of financing their business (interest payments). Some of the stock will sell promptly at full price - great. Other items will get shop soiled, nicked, obsolete or will just sit on the shelf for so long that they need to be discounted to shift them. Some customers will bring stuff back, and they may be given a full refund even though the items can't subsequently be re-sold at full price. Every item sold has to have all of the above overhead costs (and more) built into the price, while still leaving enough to make it worthwhile for the proprietor to go on running the business (if s/he is only making the minimum wage - or less - at the end of it all then they'll quickly start to question why they're bothering with all the financial risk, stress, evenings spent doing paperwork etc). As a 'proper' business they will be paying tax on their profits and they will almost certainly be handing over 20% of the price of everything they sell to the VAT man (although they will of course be claiming back the VAT on the purchase price of whatever they buy).

These are just some of the tribulations of running a full-time retail business. It's no surprise in the light of the above that a typical bike shop charges more than the best available online price. As regards bike shops that also sell online - I'm not a particular fan of dual online/shop pricing either. But I can see why they have to do it. If they try to sell online at shop prices they won't sell much - there will always be someone ready to undercut them. So they cut their online prices to compete. But if they then sell at their online prices in the shop they almost certainly won't make enough to cover all of their overheads, and will probably go out of business. So I also understand why they will match either the best available online price or at least their own online price in the shop when asked, even though - like Jon - I'm also not much of a fan of having to ask.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2014, 11:17:41 AM by domparkes »
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