Author Topic: This is gonna make some of you cry!  (Read 5331 times)

markieboy

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Re: This is gonna make some of you cry!
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2012, 08:24:45 AM »
What on earth is that Jon!? :o


 :o Markie edited post! Gaaaaajhhhhhh!!   :o

Oops, I clicked modify instead of quote.
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markieboy

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Re: This is gonna make some of you cry!
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2012, 08:47:15 AM »
So are you going the full SPD option? (with baggies and peaked helmet?)
Yep!  ;D At least I'm not doing a Pease and sticking flatties on it!  ;)

I test rode a Giant SCR and put my flats on it, and will do so when/if I get a road/touring bike. I tried SPDs and couldn't see the advantage. The “pulling on the upstroke” advantage seems to me to be a bit of a myth, or at least such a marginal advantage that for an everyday Joe like me, it's not significant. This article seems to bust the upstroke myth Which Muscles are Really Used During the Pedal Stroke
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Pilau

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Re: This is gonna make some of you cry!
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2012, 09:26:31 AM »
So are you going the full SPD option? (with baggies and peaked helmet?)
Yep!  ;D At least I'm not doing a Pease and sticking flatties on it!  ;)

I test rode a Giant SCR and put my flats on it, and will do so when/if I get a road/touring bike. I tried SPDs and couldn't see the advantage. The “pulling on the upstroke” advantage seems to me to be a bit of a myth, or at least such a marginal advantage that for an everyday Joe like me, it's not significant. This article seems to bust the upstroke myth Which Muscles are Really Used During the Pedal Stroke

Sorry not read the article, not really enough time  ::) I can't say I pull very strongly on the up-stroke, but the power band goes much further around the stroke with SPDs. I don't care what anyone says, I climb significantly stronger with SPDs! Fact! I'm an out and out flatties fan. You might see me use SPDs on an all-out XC ride/bike but you'll not see me do a trail centre or anything all-mountain with anything other than flatties. So I'm not biased. It's a case of right tool for the job  :)  and IMHO being clipped in increases the efficiency and/or the the strength of your stroke. Don't forget all the DH'ers  who are moving to clipped-in pedals and the stats say that the winners are the clipped-in guys!  8) (You wouldn't catch me DH'ing in SPDs, but each to his own!)

The other problem Pease has on the road bike (though I think he enjoys it!  :D ) is scraping the flatties on the deck when he's hard banking in a corner!!  :D

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Re: This is gonna make some of you cry!
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2012, 09:29:47 AM »
IMHO being clipped in increases the efficiency and/or the the strength of your stroke.

Jon, sometimes you'll see a quote you just have to comment on. I think you need to start and learn to control these urges. Now, I need you to count to 3, take a deep breath and ignore this. Walk on by! You know you can do it!!  ;D  ;) ;)

cas_uk

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Re: Re: This is gonna make some of you cry!
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2012, 10:56:20 AM »
IMHO being clipped in increases the efficiency and/or the the strength of your stroke.

Jon, sometimes you'll see a quote you just have to comment on. I think you need to start and learn to control these urges. Now, I need you to count to 3, take a deep breath and ignore this. Walk on by! You know you can do it!!  ;D  ;) ;)

Can't.....do.....it....must....resist.....................urge........












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Pilau

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Re: Re: This is gonna make some of you cry!
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2012, 11:06:15 AM »
IMHO being clipped in increases the efficiency and/or the the strength of your stroke.

Jon, sometimes you'll see a quote you just have to comment on. I think you need to start and learn to control these urges. Now, I need you to count to 3, take a deep breath and ignore this. Walk on by! You know you can do it!!  ;D  ;) ;)

Can't.....do.....it....must....resist.....................urge........












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 :D :D :D :D :D



Actually, I've tried reading that article now. It sounds quite compelling except for the fact that the science lacks the usual citations and quantitative information. I think it basically says - if you pedal in the same way using clipless and using flat pedals there's no benefit. Makes sense. But you pedal differently with clipless pedals. It does go on to say that can give you knee problems but I think that applies more to riders who make big changes to their technique. Mine is more subtle (partly because  can't maintain the concentration on my technique long enough!  ;) ) Bottom line - for me  -  I pedal harder and stronger with SPDs.

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Re: This is gonna make some of you cry!
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2012, 11:38:20 AM »
IMHO being clipped in increases the efficiency and/or the the strength of your stroke.

Jon, sometimes you'll see a quote you just have to comment on. I think you need to start and learn to control these urges. Now, I need you to count to 3, take a deep breath and ignore this. Walk on by! You know you can do it!!  ;D  ;) ;)

Haha, I was too late.

Anyway, the point about upstroke on SPDs v flats is bollocks!

You use SPDs because your foot is ALWAYS in contact with the pedals. It doesn't slip off, it doesn't get bounced off when going across rough ground.

Sure, you may get a little more power because your foot doesn't slip forward when you push on the down stroke, but I'll bet that a SPD user puts out more power overall simply because the power TRANSFER is more assured. Add in very stiff racing shoes as opposed to bendy flat shoes and you've got more..

But the reason all us old fashioned xc racers use SPDs is that we know where our feet are in relation to the bike, not to increase power.

(I've also got a theory that people who use flats and mash the pedals led to the demise of single pivot bikes because the suspension would start bouncing when the rider didn't pedal smoothly....  :) )
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markieboy

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Re: This is gonna make some of you cry!
« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2012, 12:19:09 PM »
IMHO being clipped in increases the efficiency and/or the the strength of your stroke.

Jon, sometimes you'll see a quote you just have to comment on. I think you need to start and learn to control these urges. Now, I need you to count to 3, take a deep breath and ignore this. Walk on by! You know you can do it!!  ;D  ;) ;)

Haha, I was too late.

Anyway, the point about upstroke on SPDs v flats is bollocks!

You use SPDs because your foot is ALWAYS in contact with the pedals. It doesn't slip off, it doesn't get bounced off when going across rough ground.

Sure, you may get a little more power because your foot doesn't slip forward when you push on the down stroke, but I'll bet that a SPD user puts out more power overall simply because the power TRANSFER is more assured. Add in very stiff racing shoes as opposed to bendy flat shoes and you've got more..

But the reason all us old fashioned xc racers use SPDs is that we know where our feet are in relation to the bike, not to increase power.

(I've also got a theory that people who use flats and mash the pedals led to the demise of single pivot bikes because the suspension would start bouncing when the rider didn't pedal smoothly....  :) )

Good comments there, nice to hear a SPuD user debunking the upstroke myth. I think SPDs are useful to show people where to place their feet on the pedals, on my daily commute I pass at least four “heel pedallers” with their seatposts down too low.
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cas_uk

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Re: Re: This is gonna make some of you cry!
« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2012, 12:36:28 PM »
IMHO being clipped in increases the efficiency and/or the the strength of your stroke.

Jon, sometimes you'll see a quote you just have to comment on. I think you need to start and learn to control these urges. Now, I need you to count to 3, take a deep breath and ignore this. Walk on by! You know you can do it!!  ;D  ;) ;)

Haha, I was too late.

Anyway, the point about upstroke on SPDs v flats is bollocks!

You use SPDs because your foot is ALWAYS in contact with the pedals. It doesn't slip off, it doesn't get bounced off when going across rough ground.

Sure, you may get a little more power because your foot doesn't slip forward when you push on the down stroke, but I'll bet that a SPD user puts out more power overall simply because the power TRANSFER is more assured. Add in very stiff racing shoes as opposed to bendy flat shoes and you've got more..

But the reason all us old fashioned xc racers use SPDs is that we know where our feet are in relation to the bike, not to increase power.

(I've also got a theory that people who use flats and mash the pedals led to the demise of single pivot bikes because the suspension would start bouncing when the rider didn't pedal smoothly....  :) )

Good comments there, nice to hear a SPuD user debunking the upstroke myth. I think SPDs are useful to show people where to place their feet on the pedals, on my daily commute I pass at least four “heel pedallers” with their seatposts down too low.

A regular sighting on bike rides like the Gower bike ride. They should hire someone to make sure before they set off in such things. It does loads of damage I believe. I cycled from swansea to langland 5days a week twice a day when I was a teenager on my bmx (not a good idea for my knee as I have now later in life discovered)
I wanted to ask Andy did you go and buy the SPD's and shoes and if so what are they? I'm gonna try it on the 29er over the winter I think.

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spicy 516

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Re: Re: This is gonna make some of you cry!
« Reply #24 on: October 17, 2012, 06:24:21 PM »
IMHO being clipped in increases the efficiency and/or the the strength of your stroke.

Jon, sometimes you'll see a quote you just have to comment on. I think you need to start and learn to control these urges. Now, I need you to count to 3, take a deep breath and ignore this. Walk on by! You know you can do it!!  ;D  ;) ;)

Haha, I was too late.

Anyway, the point about upstroke on SPDs v flats is bollocks!

You use SPDs because your foot is ALWAYS in contact with the pedals. It doesn't slip off, it doesn't get bounced off when going across rough ground.

Sure, you may get a little more power because your foot doesn't slip forward when you push on the down stroke, but I'll bet that a SPD user puts out more power overall simply because the power TRANSFER is more assured. Add in very stiff racing shoes as opposed to bendy flat shoes and you've got more..

But the reason all us old fashioned xc racers use SPDs is that we know where our feet are in relation to the bike, not to increase power.

(I've also got a theory that people who use flats and mash the pedals led to the demise of single pivot bikes because the suspension would start bouncing when the rider didn't pedal smoothly....  :) )

Good comments there, nice to hear a SPuD user debunking the upstroke myth. I think SPDs are useful to show people where to place their feet on the pedals, on my daily commute I pass at least four “heel pedallers” with their seatposts down too low.

A regular sighting on bike rides like the Gower bike ride. They should hire someone to make sure before they set off in such things. It does loads of damage I believe. I cycled from swansea to langland 5days a week twice a day when I was a teenager on my bmx (not a good idea for my knee as I have now later in life discovered)
I wanted to ask Andy did you go and buy the SPD's and shoes and if so what are they? I'm gonna try it on the 29er over the winter I think.

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http://www.tredz.co.uk/.Specialized-BG-Comp-MTB-Cycling-Shoe_40252.htm awesome value and super comfy I've done 120km rides in them with out any probs what so ever .

Again awesome value at that price , easy to locat your cleat and great support from the outer cage .

Pilau

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Re: This is gonna make some of you cry!
« Reply #25 on: October 17, 2012, 08:15:22 PM »

Haha, I was too late.

Anyway, the point about upstroke on SPDs v flats is bollocks!


I didn't make that very clear.  :-[ I agree that there's not much gain in the upstroke. Personally I feel it across the horizontal part of the stroke. More at the top than the bottom. But what you guys are saying about locating your feet is bang on.


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Re: Re: This is gonna make some of you cry!
« Reply #26 on: October 17, 2012, 08:25:29 PM »

I wanted to ask Andy did you go and buy the SPD's and shoes and if so what are they? I'm gonna try it on the 29er over the winter I think.

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I already had them from when I used to run them on my HT.  Hence SPD and not roadie shoes, I didn't see the point in buying another pair of shoes. In fact the SPDs are staying on the HT when I switch it from commuter to XC ride. I'm using Shimano Deore and LX pedals. Just simple SPDs, no cage. The shoes are Spesh, a few years old now, and bottom of the range. Comfortable to me, but they're cold in the winter. I'll need to buy some overshoes.

spicy 516

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Re: This is gonna make some of you cry!
« Reply #27 on: October 17, 2012, 10:10:41 PM »

Haha, I was too late.

Anyway, the point about upstroke on SPDs v flats is bollocks!


I didn't make that very clear.  :-[ I agree that there's not much gain in the upstroke. Personally I feel it across the horizontal part of the stroke. More at the top than the bottom. But what you guys are saying about locating your feet is bang on.



Haha, I was too late.

Anyway, the point about upstroke on SPDs v flats is bollocks!


I didn't make that very clear.  :-[ I agree that there's not much gain in the upstroke. Personally I feel it across the horizontal part of the stroke. More at the top than the bottom. But what you guys are saying about locating your feet is bang on.

Totally disagree sorry about the up stroke.
when your out of the saddle in a low gear powering up a hill if you time it right you can push down with 1 foot and pull up with the other increasing your power out put by loads.

You deffo can't do this with flats , try it next time your out  ;)

« Last Edit: October 17, 2012, 10:21:14 PM by spicy 516 »

Pilau

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Re: This is gonna make some of you cry!
« Reply #28 on: October 17, 2012, 10:55:53 PM »
Yeah OK, I agree but I can only do it for a short burst and then I'm spent. I'm not convinced it's efficient, but that could be different with differing levels of fitness. Dunno really. But in the saddle I get that connected to the pedals feel and apply pressure much further round the stroke. I get it out of the saddle too but to be honest, out of the saddle I'd probably be able to do the same just as effectively with flatties. 

Anyway. When are we gonna cease with this drivel and sort out who's found the best shaving cream for their legs!?  :-*

markieboy

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Re: This is gonna make some of you cry!
« Reply #29 on: October 18, 2012, 11:35:31 AM »

Anyway. When are we gonna cease with this drivel and sort out who's found the best shaving cream for their legs!?  :-*

This stuff is great, the mint oil leaves your baldy legs feeling nice and tingly.

A Gentleman in the mountains, no matter what his means of access, should be appropriately attired at all times, specifically in a manner which befits his modesty and public decency.